The other two where the 'Blue Wizards' .... 2 of the order where of the blue. They went eastward whilst Radagast, Saruman and Gandalf stayed in the west. No stories or tales of their actions in Middle Earth are told. There are many theories in what they came to Middle Earth for but we'll never know.

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www.myspace.com/neilthompson300

Radagast, the Brown arrived from the Undying Lands about the year 1000 in the Third Age. His special skills and responsibilities concerned the welfare of beasts and birds; his home was in Rhosgobel, in the southern vales of the Anduin, near the borders of the forest then known as Mirkwood.

alatar and pallando are the other 2 istari

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I don't

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There and back again

People are often concernced with internal history rather than the external details, but here's a more external look at the history of the 'other two' Wizards, noting that inconsistencies are not unexpected, given the various texts, and Tolkien's memory. In any case Tolkien had various things to say about them:



1954 Istari essay (Unfinished Tales): number of order unknown -- two wizards came clad in Sea-blue, little known of them -- no names in the West save Ithryn Luin 'the Blue Wizards' -- passed into East with Saurman but never returned -- whether remained in the East pursuing their purpose, or perished, or as some hold were ensnared by Sauron and became his servants, is not known.

A hard to date, brief and hasty sketch: Quenya names appear, Alatar and Pallando -- this dates from sometime after the completion of The Lord of the Rings. An alliterative verse mentions: of the five that came from a far country, only one retuned.

1958 (letter 211): Tolkien -- doesn't know colours (doubts they had distinctive colours) -- doesn't know anything clearly about the 'other two' -- thinks they went to distant land, fears they failed, and suspects they were founders or beginners or secret cults and magic traditions outlasting Sauron's fall.

The Lord of the Rings and late notes:

In The Lord of the Rings the Istari were said to have appeared in Middle-earth when maybe a thousand years of the Third Age had passed. The Istari need not have arrived all together, on the same exact ship of course; but a late text on the success of the 'Blues' reads...

'The 'other two' came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age' (and it was said that the reincarnated Glorfindel probably came to Middle-earth in SA 1600). And... [the Blue Wizards] '... must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West.'

According to this late note their names are Morinehtar and Romestamo (or Rome(n)star). According to another late note: 'no names are recorded for the two wizards'

But compare with yet another passage, similarly dated very late (probably 1972)...

'Saruman is said (e.g. by Gandalf himself) to have been the chief of the Istari -- that is, higher in Valinórean stature than the others. Gandalf was evidently the next in order. Radagast is presented as a person of much less power and wisdom. Of the other two nothing is said in published work save the reference to the five wizards in the altercation between Gandalf and Saruman. Now these Maiar were sent by the Valar at a crucial moment in the history of Middle-earth to enhance the resistance of the Elves of the West, waning in power, and of the uncorrupted Men of the West, greatly outnumbered by those of the East and South.' Unfinished Tales

It is difficult to know if this note came before, or after, the two late notes above, but this one seems to state that all the Istari in question came at generally the same time (at a crucial moment), rather than the Blue Wizards coming in SA 1600 -- well before Gandalf! Again, keeping in mind, in any case, what was published by Tolkien himself in The Lord of the Rings.


JRRT does seem ready to give them Quenya names, as he did for the more well known wizards too (Curumo, Olórin, Aiwendil). The possibilities are: Morinehtar, Rómestámo, Rómestar, Alatar, Pallando.

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What do we really know about the 'other two'? are they really even blue? Perhaps there's some reference to colour after 1958 that I can't recall at the moment, but if not... hmm. Can we even tell the 'last' text that Tolkien ever wrote concerning them? What are their Quenya names... for certain?

Did two really come thousands of years before Gandalf, or was the already published statement in Appendix B enough to keep Tolkien off this idea -- and maybe that's why the late note on the success of these wizards never got much beyond a very hard to read, short note?

A mystery!

Thanks John, although with JRRT it's sometimes tough to try and be complete.

Anyway, I refer above to three late notes, two of which were very hard to read -- and appear to be on the reverse side of the page of the late note published in Unfinished Tales. Christopher Tolkien could not read the two 'uninterpretable' notes well enough when Unfinished Tales was published, so in that book we got the one beginning 'We must assume that they were all Maiar...'

With longer scrutiny CJRT was able to (just about) make out two other notes, and these were published in The Peoples of Middle-Earth, in Last Writings.

Of these three we (or I anyway, so far) really can't tell which came before the other, but the one in which the two wizards are said to come to Middle-earth much earlier than Gandalf is described as: 'even rougher and more difficult' (than the first one presented in POME).

Tolkien also added a statement of his own indicating that he had lost an earlier note -- which might have been the one in which the names Alatar and Pallando occur. If so, perhaps this is why he invented other names for these wizards at this point, not being able to lay his hands on the 'lost note' (which, if it's the one in question, obviously was later found by Christopher Tolkien, and published in Unfinished Tales).

I hope this post makes sense! but anyway the UT stuff is probably a bit more well known on the web to date.

Tolkien's history is sometimes 'selective'. For example: who doesn't call these wizards the 'Blue' Wizards? or Alatar and Pallando? But these are really popular selections compared to lesser known texts; and lesser known need not mean lesser.

And of course there's nothing wrong with stating history or details according to a given book -- based only on details culled from within that book -- but yet this might imply a certainty that does not truly exist when all the extant texts are considered, including letters.

Also, as readers, especially on the web perhaps, we are fairly often reminded of Alatar/Pallando for instance -- but if JRRT wrote a note, didn't look at it again for years, will he necessarily remember what names he gave them? or that he said they wore sea-blue robes?

So later when he writes that he doubts they had distinctive colours, was he revising or forgetting? or if he forgot, did it really matter since sea-blue robes was never published, and he thus is 'revising' in a sense in any case, because 'today's idea' seemed right no matter what else existed in older private papers.

Sorry, just a matter I ponder sometimes.

To be clear, I certainly understand why the publishers have done what they did...

... I'm just using this as another jumping point to (again) raise questions concerning the larger matter of Tolkien's unpublished history -- questions already raised in the thread before I even saw this new edition.

I don't think the publishers need to, nor would I expect them to, explain in detail the complex textual history of the wizards while trying to sell Unfinished Tales -- in something written up specifically designed to help sell the book.